Erdem Moralıoğlu and Sheila Atim On Fashion, Theater And Inspiring Women
Renowned for exquisite fabrics, vibrant prints and detailed craftsmanship, ERDEM MORALIOĞLU deftly blends the delicate with the bold in his namesake label – and his new collection is no exception. Here, the designer sits down with actor SHEILA ATIM to talk transformation, true heroines and her upcoming movie The Woman King, as she showcases this season’s standout looks
Erdem Moralıoğlu: “I’ll start by introducing you: this is Sheila Atim, the extraordinary actor, author, playwright, model, singer, composer and MBE recipient…”
Sheila Atim: “This is Erdem Moralıoğlu, MBE, one of Britain’s most iconic designers, who’s dressed everyone from the Duchess of Cambridge and Nicole Kidman to Michelle Obama – who’s also a personal hero of mine. You and I first met at your [SS]19 show at the National Gallery…”
EM: “Yes, and I’d long been a huge admirer of your work before we met – I wonder, what have been your highlights? I’ll say one personal highlight was seeing you in [the West End play] Constellations, for which you won an Olivier Award, and is extraordinary.”
SA: “That was definitely one of my favorites. It was a really special time because the West End was just reopening in the middle of the pandemic. There was social distancing and masks, but everyone was just so enthusiastic and it really felt like the audiences were behind us. The play is also really beautiful – [it is] about people trying to connect against the odds and all the different ways they try to do that, and fail sometimes, and then succeed. I think it was something everybody really needed.”
“During a [fashion] show, you’re taking someone somewhere for eight minutes, and there’s something almost cinematic about it when it works really well and really beautifully; it becomes something that’s much more than just clothes
”Erdem Moralıoğlu
EM: “You also have another amazing project coming out, The Woman King, which I’m so excited about seeing. Is it specifically about the Kingdom of Dahomey?”
SA: “Yes, which is now modern-day Benin, because [the film] is pre-colonial, 1800s-style. It’s based on real people – they called themselves the Agojie, Dahomey Amazons, and they were an all-female army. At the point in which you see them in the film, the stakes are very high. It’s set against the backdrop of transatlantic slavery, and there’s a new king that’s come in, so there are lots of decisions to be made and lots of flux. And then there’s also the interpersonal relationships between them all – and there’s lots of fighting.”
EM: “There were so many stunts that you did yourself…”
SA: “I did all of mine. Lashana Lynch did all of hers, too. Pretty much everyone did almost all their own stunts, aside from things that an actor really couldn’t do – crazy stuff where you needed to get insurance. Before I even got the job, Gina Prince-Bythewood, the director, said: ‘I want you to do as much of it as you can, because you can shoot it better.’ I think it has a real impact because it doesn’t feel like training, it feels real because it is real. It meant we had to train like warriors, [and] your body transforms.”
SA: “I know you love history, and that you have a lot of strong women who inspire your work. Who has been a kind of lighthouse for you, in your life and in your work?”
EM: “I’ve always been very interested in a narrative and the idea of a heroine, whether it’s someone like Tina Modotti, an amazing Italian [photographer] who moved to Mexico and became a revolutionary, or Marianne North, a Victorian botanist, or, most recently, Eileen Agar [a surrealist artist]. There are so many extraordinary women and men that I’ve used as a spark or starting point to create a body of work. I also think fashion can be used in lots of different ways – during a show, you’re taking someone somewhere for eight minutes, and there’s something almost cinematic about it when it works really well and really beautifully; it becomes something that’s much more than just clothes.”
SA: “Your shows always feel like they have an element of theater about them. It’s interesting, having got to know you and realizing that you do also love theater.”
EM: “I connect to this idea of a feeling, and I think clothes can evoke that; I think they can be very powerful.”
SA: “I feel very powerful in this beautiful dress. Talk a bit more about Eileen Agar…”
EM: “Eileen Agar, who my Erdem PF22 collection was inspired by, was an amazing English artist who was creating some of her most famous works in the 1930s and 1940s. I discovered her work at a retrospective called Angel of Anarchy at the Whitechapel Gallery [in London] – it was such an apt title [because] she was just that. She was an independent female artist creating this quite surreal body of work when there really weren’t that many female artists creating that type of work; she was fascinated by nature, sex, abstraction and surrealism. I found there was something particularly interesting about her fascination with nature, and I was really drawn to her collages. Who are some of your heroines?”
SA: “My mother, always. And Viola Davis, who I got to work with on The Woman King. In fact, in meeting her, she became more of a heroine; to see the person behind the famous Viola Davis and receive confirmation that what you see is what you get… She tries to be so honest with who she is in public, and I find that really admirable because that’s not easy when you’re in the public eye; it’s not always easy to be your authentic self. Meeting and working with her, I was just so pleased to find that that really is her – everything she talks about being passionate about, she really is. And she’s also a great practitioner; she really cares about acting and what she does. She’s always trying to drill down into the who and why; I really learned a lot from her.”
EM: “You [were born in] Uganda and grew up in Essex with your mum – what life lessons have you learned from her?”
SA: “I’ve learned a lot about what it means to try; you don’t know what’s on the other side of something. There are huge leaps into the unknown and when I look at my own life trajectory, I see that there have been moments where I’ve really engaged with them without realizing; I’ve just sort of stepped off the edge of a cliff. With the craft of acting, that’s become important – I’m very instinct-led. You have to be okay with being a failure and falling on your face; trying something that doesn’t quite work and trusting that the people around you will help you shape it and that you won’t be judged – but also, if you are, not to worry about it. Speaking of mothers, you’ve talked about yours in terms of how she’s inspired you in lots of ways – notably her style. Tell me more about her.”
EM: “My mum was extraordinary and what I really hold onto and remember about her are the things she enjoyed in life, whether it was history, art, a gallery; she was a very visual person and she never really separated what she liked from my sister and I. There was this amazing openness to her and the way she shared with us, which really influenced me in how I digest visual information and find beauty in the things you wouldn’t necessarily know where to look; beauty in the unexpected – that was definitely something she taught me.”
“There’s nothing more thrilling than seeing someone slip into something and seeing how one’s body changes, and how you find yourself moving slightly differently when you’re wearing something that feels good
”Erdem Moralıoğlu
SA: “I’ve read that for you, it’s not about what a woman wears but how she feels when she’s wearing it. How do you want women and men to feel in your designs?”
EM: “I think I’ve always been fascinated by this idea of creating a sense of permanence; the idea that you can create something that isn’t necessarily about a specific season and year. I often see women wearing things that I made from 15 years ago to 10 years ago to this season, and I find that so wonderful. There’s nothing more thrilling than seeing someone slip into something and seeing how one’s body changes, and how you find yourself moving slightly differently when you’re wearing something that feels good. There’s something tremendously powerful about that.”
The Woman King is in cinemas now